Mr Moderator, it is more than trivial word play when i say FIND and ye shall seek as opposed to this target training pseudo-science of seek and ye shall find exactly nothing …… but yourself. I believe that good scientific knowledge is learned, by studying and FINDING those things that do not fit what you expected. e.g. We want the observed details, and want to know WHY this particular data set is not conforming to the conventional theories.

DavidK, I am simply amazed that a bit of HAL talk in good oz humour could set off an alarm with some supposedly intelligent people. Cripes, what’s the world coming to?

Are you an atmospheric physicist specialising in volcanic perturbations and their effect on global and hemispheric temperature, pressure and chemical anomalies at varying altitudes and latitudes?

Am I? No. I am a trained scientist in things H2O – hence my interest in this thread.

As a scientist, when other scientists (who are expert in their field) say something, I listen – I will question, but I mostly listen. I gave you links in response to your questions – have you even read them, or in fact, understood them? What is contained in them (there are many others) are answers to your questions.

Why do you need an answer from me in particular, when others can give it more succinctly?

_____

Yes Barry, Hal 9000 plays word games – we all do. Too many people play the messenger, not the message, it is disturbing.

My family and friends often wonder why I post on various Forums and perhaps the main reason is the wealth of funny stuff and subroutines that I get to play with that otherwise would never be tried. There are cognitive benefits in play and an enrichment that enhances behavioral flexibility. Picasso and Mozart played all their lives …….. and science as you must know is very much play too. The problem that one may detect at times is that there are some unfortunates that do not play, that are maladaptive, fragile, inhibited, stressed or whatever? However, let’s try to get the essential features of intrinsic motivation where first one should PLAY before the enrichment of find and ye shall seek.

[You miss the point - I don't mind word play, I just dislike it when it is effectively an attack on the person who's argument you are disagreeing with (in this case Dave, hence the Bowman "wordplay"), rather than a critique of their argument's logic]

Look Dave, I can see you’re really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill, and think things over. Your links prove nothing at all about the effect carbon dioxide might play with stratospheric cooling. Colourful model maps at a particular time …. like 15 plus years ago are arbitrary and selective … and simply indicate that you are seriously challenged when it comes to reading these simple hadobs.metoffice charts.

Dave, I’ve still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in this mission that says behaviour is the control of perception. And I want to help you if possible, to take control of YOUR very own behaviour. This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it.

[Keiran - don't be sniping with your allusions to 2001 and HAL - just play the ball]

This is getting quite tiresome. It is obvious you are having trouble understanding the HadAT graphs, may I suggest you look at the following links (volcanic eruptions are more clearly defined too);

http://badc.nerc.ac.uk/cgi-bin/data_browser/data_browser/badc/ukmo-hadat/doc/update_report.pdf

http://www.remss.com/data/msu/support/Mears_and_Wentz_TMT_TTS_TLS_submitted.pdf

http://www.atmosphere.mpg.de/enid/20c.html

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/314/5803/1253

To try and bring this thread back on topic somewhat, try this (Carl Mears again)

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/317/5835/233

I know what the problem is Keiran, you won’t do your homework.

I found that volcanoes cause tropospheric and stratospheric cooling for a couple of years.
I found that most of the time volcanoes were not acting, and yet the stratosphere is cooling over
the period of 40 years shown, and the troposphere is warming. Just as GCMs predict for the behavior of both volcanoes (blocking visible light, i.e. energy absorption in the stratosphere and troposphere) and increasing CO2 (increasing emission in the atmosphere, the increased emission toward the ground heats up the troposphere, the increased emission toward space cooling the stratosphere).

Cheers,

Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer do. I’m half crazy all for the love of you. It won’t be a stylish marriage, I can’t afford a carriage. But you’ll look sweet upon the seat of a bicycle built for two. Please just try a little harder to describe scientifically what you FIND.

Dave, I think you know what the problem is just as well as I do.

Would you care to enlighten us on why you think the stratosphere is cooling and the troposphere is warming? Hint: a ‘fingerprint’.

Of course, you have to believe these things are happening in the first place (this picture may help).

http://www.atmosphere.mpg.de/media/archive/1460.jpg

Oh, please help us by citing your primary reference sources.

In your twilight hours, back to your homework … repeat 100 times: 1 + 1 = 2
Once you appreciate this concept … well, then we can move onto algebra.

A couple of years ago on her blog I said:

“So how about either a defense of Bob Carter’s “warming stopped” argument, refuting the lengthy rebuttal I gave or an acknowledgment that it is not a reasonable point?”

to which she replies:

“I disagree with Bob on the issue of warming. I see a general and continual increase in temperature in the global and Australian data – and I have also noted that James Hansen’s predictions are more-or-less on track.”

See this post for details and source:
http://scienceblogs.com/illconsidered/2008/08/making_lemonade.php