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	<title>Comments on: Spot the recycled denial VI – Chris Kenny</title>
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	<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/01/01/spot-the-recycled-denial-vi-chris-kenny/</link>
	<description>Getting to grips with the brave new world of future climate and energy - notes from a Promethean environmentalist</description>
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		<title>By: perps</title>
		<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/01/01/spot-the-recycled-denial-vi-chris-kenny/#comment-39397</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[perps]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 05:50:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bravenewclimate.com/?p=823#comment-39397</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Marcel for pointing out, from personal experience, the ramifications of increasing temperatures on our lives.
We should all be very afraid of catastrophic GW/CC. Unfortunately there are some people, with limited intelligence and imagination, who obviously do not have any comprehension of the magnitude of the problem. Those who seek to delay action by disingenuous, pseudo scepticism of the science should, and indeed may, be held responsible.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Marcel for pointing out, from personal experience, the ramifications of increasing temperatures on our lives.<br />
We should all be very afraid of catastrophic GW/CC. Unfortunately there are some people, with limited intelligence and imagination, who obviously do not have any comprehension of the magnitude of the problem. Those who seek to delay action by disingenuous, pseudo scepticism of the science should, and indeed may, be held responsible.</p>
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		<title>By: Marcel</title>
		<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/01/01/spot-the-recycled-denial-vi-chris-kenny/#comment-39383</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Marcel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 04:06:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bravenewclimate.com/?p=823#comment-39383</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m petrified of global warming. 
Earlier this year I survived a day that maxed at 45.7C. Unfortunately many of my pets did not. I lost all of my indoor fish, several chickens, a couple of aviary birds and 99% of the worms in my worm farm.
If the planet warms 3 or 4 degrees days like that will become quite common which is, to me, rather frightening.
I&#039;m really tired of flat-earthers like Kenny keeping a dead debate alive.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m petrified of global warming.<br />
Earlier this year I survived a day that maxed at 45.7C. Unfortunately many of my pets did not. I lost all of my indoor fish, several chickens, a couple of aviary birds and 99% of the worms in my worm farm.<br />
If the planet warms 3 or 4 degrees days like that will become quite common which is, to me, rather frightening.<br />
I&#8217;m really tired of flat-earthers like Kenny keeping a dead debate alive.</p>
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		<title>By: Pinch Pennies Save Planet &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Adaptability</title>
		<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/01/01/spot-the-recycled-denial-vi-chris-kenny/#comment-15768</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pinch Pennies Save Planet &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Adaptability]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 05:09:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bravenewclimate.com/?p=823#comment-15768</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] us that we have to change a lot of our ways and that we have to be more conscious? World wide, the deniers recycle their lies and bogus science propaganda, have been doing so since the 1990s, and still there are many people who would rather believe them [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] us that we have to change a lot of our ways and that we have to be more conscious? World wide, the deniers recycle their lies and bogus science propaganda, have been doing so since the 1990s, and still there are many people who would rather believe them [...]</p>
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		<title>By: duke</title>
		<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/01/01/spot-the-recycled-denial-vi-chris-kenny/#comment-4705</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[duke]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 22:55:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bravenewclimate.com/?p=823#comment-4705</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jon Jenkins has responded a couple of times to criticisms of his article at Deltoid
http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2009/01/the_australians_war_on_science_32.php#commentsArea]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jon Jenkins has responded a couple of times to criticisms of his article at Deltoid<br />
<a href="http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2009/01/the_australians_war_on_science_32.php#commentsArea" rel="nofollow">http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2009/01/the_australians_war_on_science_32.php#commentsArea</a></p>
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		<title>By: Barry Brook</title>
		<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/01/01/spot-the-recycled-denial-vi-chris-kenny/#comment-4689</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Barry Brook]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 05:53:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bravenewclimate.com/?p=823#comment-4689</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: #17 again, the Australian published a short response yesterday from &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.linkedin.com/pub/4/170/46b&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Robin Ormerod&lt;/a&gt;, which is rather good:
http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/letters/index.php/theaustralian/comments/science_is_about_hypotheses/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: #17 again, the Australian published a short response yesterday from <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/pub/4/170/46b" rel="nofollow">Robin Ormerod</a>, which is rather good:<br />
<a href="http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/letters/index.php/theaustralian/comments/science_is_about_hypotheses/" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/letters/index.php/theaustralian/comments/science_is_about_hypotheses/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Nigel</title>
		<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/01/01/spot-the-recycled-denial-vi-chris-kenny/#comment-4639</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nigel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 01:24:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bravenewclimate.com/?p=823#comment-4639</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re:17
Although the article by Jon Jenkins is disturbingly bad journalism, I must say  the balance of people writing in support of it is even more disturbing.
Australia seems to have more anti climate change people than other countries?
I realise our science education is pretty bad but this is getting ridiculous!
I&#039;ve had to reply to Chris a few times in the &#039;Tiser and can&#039;t work out why the editors of the Advertiser let him dig himself into holes with false statements? Don&#039;t they have a duty of care to their staff? Is it too difficult to take him aside and just make sure he has his facts right before publishing? There&#039;s having an opinion and then there is simply being wrong. By now I would have thought Chris could at least be responding to the grayer areas of climate science rather than denying reality?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re:17<br />
Although the article by Jon Jenkins is disturbingly bad journalism, I must say  the balance of people writing in support of it is even more disturbing.<br />
Australia seems to have more anti climate change people than other countries?<br />
I realise our science education is pretty bad but this is getting ridiculous!<br />
I&#8217;ve had to reply to Chris a few times in the &#8216;Tiser and can&#8217;t work out why the editors of the Advertiser let him dig himself into holes with false statements? Don&#8217;t they have a duty of care to their staff? Is it too difficult to take him aside and just make sure he has his facts right before publishing? There&#8217;s having an opinion and then there is simply being wrong. By now I would have thought Chris could at least be responding to the grayer areas of climate science rather than denying reality?</p>
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		<title>By: Barry Brook</title>
		<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/01/01/spot-the-recycled-denial-vi-chris-kenny/#comment-4575</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Barry Brook]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 01:30:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bravenewclimate.com/?p=823#comment-4575</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There is a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24876451-5013480,00.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;new, flabergastedly bad denialist piece in The Australian&lt;/a&gt; today [it&#039;s so bad, it&#039;s almost as if The Australian editors are now taking the mickey out of the denialists by letting them expose their intellectual genitals in such a gross and vulgar display of ignorance]. 

Which gives me a chance to make an offer (since I&#039;m enaged with another blog post) - does a BNC reader wish to have a go at this one, following the format of the previous few &#039;Spot the Recycled Denial&#039; pieces? If so, please do, and send it on to me (bwbrook at gmail.com). Provided it fits the format and is properly done, I&#039;ll happily publish it as a guest post.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a <a href="http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24876451-5013480,00.html" rel="nofollow">new, flabergastedly bad denialist piece in The Australian</a> today [it's so bad, it's almost as if The Australian editors are now taking the mickey out of the denialists by letting them expose their intellectual genitals in such a gross and vulgar display of ignorance]. </p>
<p>Which gives me a chance to make an offer (since I&#8217;m enaged with another blog post) &#8211; does a BNC reader wish to have a go at this one, following the format of the previous few &#8216;Spot the Recycled Denial&#8217; pieces? If so, please do, and send it on to me (bwbrook at gmail.com). Provided it fits the format and is properly done, I&#8217;ll happily publish it as a guest post.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Fabos</title>
		<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/01/01/spot-the-recycled-denial-vi-chris-kenny/#comment-4464</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ken Fabos]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 21:47:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bravenewclimate.com/?p=823#comment-4464</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[J.M., I think when it comes to editors&#039; mailbags, the suitably qualified would (should) get taken more seriously than someone like myself who has no relevant qualifications or holds no relevant position. It may seem onerous to people who are already busy, and it may not take deep study to see the flaws in denialist inspired nonsense but consistent and persistent rebuttals by the qualified looks necessary. Or else such letters and opinions will be passed over and dismissed, especially if a bigger proportion of letters appear to be in support of climate change denial. 

We need people speaking from knowledge and expertise to  begin to shift that big portion of the public who take denialist arguments at face value.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>J.M., I think when it comes to editors&#8217; mailbags, the suitably qualified would (should) get taken more seriously than someone like myself who has no relevant qualifications or holds no relevant position. It may seem onerous to people who are already busy, and it may not take deep study to see the flaws in denialist inspired nonsense but consistent and persistent rebuttals by the qualified looks necessary. Or else such letters and opinions will be passed over and dismissed, especially if a bigger proportion of letters appear to be in support of climate change denial. </p>
<p>We need people speaking from knowledge and expertise to  begin to shift that big portion of the public who take denialist arguments at face value.</p>
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		<title>By: John Mashey</title>
		<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/01/01/spot-the-recycled-denial-vi-chris-kenny/#comment-4462</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Mashey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 20:25:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bravenewclimate.com/?p=823#comment-4462</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[re: #13 barry

Thanks.  I wasn&#039;t seeing much for Oz, but I didn&#039;t know if that was caused by not looking hard enough, or if there just weren&#039;t many studies.  I found that U of Toronto researchers are now concerned about &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.stewardshipcentre.on.ca/stewardshipcanada/dynamicImages/3501_Sage_Bioinvasives_and_Global_Change.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;kudzu on the march North&lt;/a&gt;.  In the US, kudzu is sometime called &quot;the plant that ate the South&quot;, i.e., a good example of a really bad idea of an introduced species brought on purpose.

That reminded me of Oz&#039;s own &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/08/080826115906.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;cane toads&lt;/a&gt;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re: #13 barry</p>
<p>Thanks.  I wasn&#8217;t seeing much for Oz, but I didn&#8217;t know if that was caused by not looking hard enough, or if there just weren&#8217;t many studies.  I found that U of Toronto researchers are now concerned about <a href="http://www.stewardshipcentre.on.ca/stewardshipcanada/dynamicImages/3501_Sage_Bioinvasives_and_Global_Change.pdf" rel="nofollow">kudzu on the march North</a>.  In the US, kudzu is sometime called &#8220;the plant that ate the South&#8221;, i.e., a good example of a really bad idea of an introduced species brought on purpose.</p>
<p>That reminded me of Oz&#8217;s own <a href="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/08/080826115906.htm" rel="nofollow">cane toads</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff Russell</title>
		<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/01/01/spot-the-recycled-denial-vi-chris-kenny/#comment-4445</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Geoff Russell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 05:56:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bravenewclimate.com/?p=823#comment-4445</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Greenfyre#10 The MEAA &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.alliance.org.au/media_alliance_code_of_ethics/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;code of ethics&lt;/a&gt;, on my reading, prohibits advocacy by journalists.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greenfyre#10 The MEAA <a href="http://www.alliance.org.au/media_alliance_code_of_ethics/" rel="nofollow">code of ethics</a>, on my reading, prohibits advocacy by journalists.</p>
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		<title>By: Barry Brook</title>
		<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/01/01/spot-the-recycled-denial-vi-chris-kenny/#comment-4442</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Barry Brook]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 05:15:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bravenewclimate.com/?p=823#comment-4442</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[John @12, alas there is little direct data or published analyses on biological responses to climate change for Australia, although a large amount of archived monitoring data covering the last 20-30 years that is now being trawled by many groups (my students/postdocs included). This is likely to reveal similar biological signals to those quantified in the Northern Hemisphere.

When the Rosenzweig meta-analysis came out last year, I made the following comment to AusSMC which pretty much summarises the current state of play:

&lt;i&gt;The new Nature by Rosenzwieg, Karoly and co-authors is a statistical integration and summary of the scientific literature on observed changes to physical and biological systems on Earth. In its broad approach and the data sets examined, it uses similar methods to that taken in the Working Group II report of the IPCC 4th Assessment report. But for those people who want the main facts without needing to wade through the many hundred pages of the official IPCC WGII report, this paper is a good summary of the main impacts and adaptation for climate change. As such, it is a must read.

There are a couple of really interesting results. One is that the evidence for change in the expected direction if climate change was having an effect - that is, changes in physical (ice sheets, stream flow, coastal erosion etc.) and biological systems (timing of breeding events, shifting species ranges, population declines etc.) - is overwhelming. Around 90% of all reasonably long-term observations show changes consistent with global warming and associated effects. There is always considerable natural variability in response of individual species, physical process and so on. Therefore, this level of concordance is really quite remarkable, and all the more so when we consider that there has been only ~0.75C of temperature change so far, yet the expectation for this century is four to nine times that amount. So these changes are only a minor portent of what is likely to come, especially if we continue on our carbon profligate pathway.

The other interesting point is that Australia is only sparsely represented. There are very few long-term datasets from Australia or New Zealand. In biological systems, for instance, there are 22 studies from Australia and a staggering 28 thousand from Europe (there are also relatively few from Asia, Africa and South America). Clearly Australia, as a science-savvy nation, needs to foster a broad-based system of biophysical monitoring, including the establishment of a large number of long-term monitoring sites and a stronger emphasis on providing resources to database and analyse our existing records (which are currently warehoused but hardly used or referenced for any evidence-based decision making). This is a great challenge for Australia, if we are to predict future climate change impacts with any degree of confidence and be in a reasonable position to build resilience into natural and human systems. Let&#039;s hope future government Budgets and funding initiatives pursue this urgent imperative with the required gusto. We&#039;ve no time to waste.&lt;/i&gt;

Other scientists made similar comments on AusSMC on the dearth of Southern Hemisphere biol response data. See: http://www.aussmc.org/warming_changing_world.php]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John @12, alas there is little direct data or published analyses on biological responses to climate change for Australia, although a large amount of archived monitoring data covering the last 20-30 years that is now being trawled by many groups (my students/postdocs included). This is likely to reveal similar biological signals to those quantified in the Northern Hemisphere.</p>
<p>When the Rosenzweig meta-analysis came out last year, I made the following comment to AusSMC which pretty much summarises the current state of play:</p>
<p><i>The new Nature by Rosenzwieg, Karoly and co-authors is a statistical integration and summary of the scientific literature on observed changes to physical and biological systems on Earth. In its broad approach and the data sets examined, it uses similar methods to that taken in the Working Group II report of the IPCC 4th Assessment report. But for those people who want the main facts without needing to wade through the many hundred pages of the official IPCC WGII report, this paper is a good summary of the main impacts and adaptation for climate change. As such, it is a must read.</p>
<p>There are a couple of really interesting results. One is that the evidence for change in the expected direction if climate change was having an effect &#8211; that is, changes in physical (ice sheets, stream flow, coastal erosion etc.) and biological systems (timing of breeding events, shifting species ranges, population declines etc.) &#8211; is overwhelming. Around 90% of all reasonably long-term observations show changes consistent with global warming and associated effects. There is always considerable natural variability in response of individual species, physical process and so on. Therefore, this level of concordance is really quite remarkable, and all the more so when we consider that there has been only ~0.75C of temperature change so far, yet the expectation for this century is four to nine times that amount. So these changes are only a minor portent of what is likely to come, especially if we continue on our carbon profligate pathway.</p>
<p>The other interesting point is that Australia is only sparsely represented. There are very few long-term datasets from Australia or New Zealand. In biological systems, for instance, there are 22 studies from Australia and a staggering 28 thousand from Europe (there are also relatively few from Asia, Africa and South America). Clearly Australia, as a science-savvy nation, needs to foster a broad-based system of biophysical monitoring, including the establishment of a large number of long-term monitoring sites and a stronger emphasis on providing resources to database and analyse our existing records (which are currently warehoused but hardly used or referenced for any evidence-based decision making). This is a great challenge for Australia, if we are to predict future climate change impacts with any degree of confidence and be in a reasonable position to build resilience into natural and human systems. Let&#8217;s hope future government Budgets and funding initiatives pursue this urgent imperative with the required gusto. We&#8217;ve no time to waste.</i></p>
<p>Other scientists made similar comments on AusSMC on the dearth of Southern Hemisphere biol response data. See: <a href="http://www.aussmc.org/warming_changing_world.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.aussmc.org/warming_changing_world.php</a></p>
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		<title>By: John Mashey</title>
		<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/01/01/spot-the-recycled-denial-vi-chris-kenny/#comment-4426</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Mashey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 21:33:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bravenewclimate.com/?p=823#comment-4426</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Q for Barry:

Is there a good current post/source (post IPCC AR4, I&#039;ve read the relevant WG II sections) on  Australia flora/fauna movement/range/growing season indicators?

In  N. America, people who can easily manage to ignore physics and statistics, and think that AGW is wrong if they can find a badly-sited surface station ...

sometimes have little answer when one points out that animals and plants don&#039;t read thermometers or NASA or Hadley or satellite results, and yet are moving poleward or uphill, and unfortunately, weeds and insects are amongst the most mobile.

Among the more striking  to people in North America are:
- the pine bark beetles now ravaging British Columbia, and expected to kill all the lodgpoles in Colorado.  One might argue that the latter is due in part to  bad forest management, but it&#039;s hard to argue that for BC, which has &lt;5M people, mostly in the Southwest, in an area substantially bigger than Texas.
- recent growth of West Nile virus in Canada
- Sugar maple range (in New England) shrinking Northward.

Is there a good corresponding set for Australia?  I.e., I&#039;ve read WG II&#039;s Chapter 11, but the question is: are  there specific examples that resonate with people there?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Q for Barry:</p>
<p>Is there a good current post/source (post IPCC AR4, I&#8217;ve read the relevant WG II sections) on  Australia flora/fauna movement/range/growing season indicators?</p>
<p>In  N. America, people who can easily manage to ignore physics and statistics, and think that AGW is wrong if they can find a badly-sited surface station &#8230;</p>
<p>sometimes have little answer when one points out that animals and plants don&#8217;t read thermometers or NASA or Hadley or satellite results, and yet are moving poleward or uphill, and unfortunately, weeds and insects are amongst the most mobile.</p>
<p>Among the more striking  to people in North America are:<br />
- the pine bark beetles now ravaging British Columbia, and expected to kill all the lodgpoles in Colorado.  One might argue that the latter is due in part to  bad forest management, but it&#8217;s hard to argue that for BC, which has &lt;5M people, mostly in the Southwest, in an area substantially bigger than Texas.<br />
- recent growth of West Nile virus in Canada<br />
- Sugar maple range (in New England) shrinking Northward.</p>
<p>Is there a good corresponding set for Australia?  I.e., I&#8217;ve read WG II&#8217;s Chapter 11, but the question is: are  there specific examples that resonate with people there?</p>
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		<title>By: MH</title>
		<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/01/01/spot-the-recycled-denial-vi-chris-kenny/#comment-4423</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MH]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 20:16:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bravenewclimate.com/?p=823#comment-4423</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Kenny&#039;s piece is classic wedge polemics.There is little point in arguing with these denialists/sceptics as they are not interested in evidence based on good science nor even in logic, note them then ignore them. I think we expend far too much energy responding to their agenda of BAS.

I think for 2009 we need to push hard on the positives of energy efficiencies, cleaner air, a more secure future using renewables and every other obvious counterpoint you can think of. IOW-cheaper,cleaner,healthier,a real future. Your average bod knows their being lied to give them an honest postive message to live with.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kenny&#8217;s piece is classic wedge polemics.There is little point in arguing with these denialists/sceptics as they are not interested in evidence based on good science nor even in logic, note them then ignore them. I think we expend far too much energy responding to their agenda of BAS.</p>
<p>I think for 2009 we need to push hard on the positives of energy efficiencies, cleaner air, a more secure future using renewables and every other obvious counterpoint you can think of. IOW-cheaper,cleaner,healthier,a real future. Your average bod knows their being lied to give them an honest postive message to live with.</p>
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		<title>By: greenfyre</title>
		<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/01/01/spot-the-recycled-denial-vi-chris-kenny/#comment-4415</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[greenfyre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 14:32:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bravenewclimate.com/?p=823#comment-4415</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@ Geoff 

&quot;You can’t slam a journalist for quoting somebody&quot;

No, but you can slam them for who they choose to quote and the context in which they provide it. As you note, Kenny knows perfectly well that he is being dodgy, and the failure to provide appropriate context betrays advocacy journalism trying to pretend it is objective. 

Advocacy is fine when it is acknowledged and up front, but even then it should be rational if you are making any pretense of informing and educating.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Geoff </p>
<p>&#8220;You can’t slam a journalist for quoting somebody&#8221;</p>
<p>No, but you can slam them for who they choose to quote and the context in which they provide it. As you note, Kenny knows perfectly well that he is being dodgy, and the failure to provide appropriate context betrays advocacy journalism trying to pretend it is objective. </p>
<p>Advocacy is fine when it is acknowledged and up front, but even then it should be rational if you are making any pretense of informing and educating.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Geoff Russell</title>
		<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/01/01/spot-the-recycled-denial-vi-chris-kenny/#comment-4402</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Geoff Russell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 06:17:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bravenewclimate.com/?p=823#comment-4402</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s a pity there is no effective policing of the MEAA journalism
code of ethics. I spent some months going through the process
with the Press Council last year and was profoundly unimpressed and that
was over a much simpler issue than Kenny&#039;s article -- which is
very carefully written.

Kenny doesn&#039;t ever say &quot;Global warming stopped in 1998&quot; and
when he voices profound stupidities like &quot;the temperature is [now] falling
precipitously&quot; he is careful to quote somebody. You can&#039;t slam a journalist
for quoting somebody and there is always an idiot they can find to
quote when they want to say something which they know will get them into
trouble if they just say it straight out. Quoting people is similar
to a trick lawyers
use when they want to do something illegal in court, they say &quot;on instruction&quot;
which is code for &quot;my client told me to do this, otherwise I wouldn&#039;t do
it because ... &quot;. Usually because it breaches some law or procedural guideline.

You can tell the really dodgy parts of Kenny&#039;s story because they
are in quotes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a pity there is no effective policing of the MEAA journalism<br />
code of ethics. I spent some months going through the process<br />
with the Press Council last year and was profoundly unimpressed and that<br />
was over a much simpler issue than Kenny&#8217;s article &#8212; which is<br />
very carefully written.</p>
<p>Kenny doesn&#8217;t ever say &#8220;Global warming stopped in 1998&#8243; and<br />
when he voices profound stupidities like &#8220;the temperature is [now] falling<br />
precipitously&#8221; he is careful to quote somebody. You can&#8217;t slam a journalist<br />
for quoting somebody and there is always an idiot they can find to<br />
quote when they want to say something which they know will get them into<br />
trouble if they just say it straight out. Quoting people is similar<br />
to a trick lawyers<br />
use when they want to do something illegal in court, they say &#8220;on instruction&#8221;<br />
which is code for &#8220;my client told me to do this, otherwise I wouldn&#8217;t do<br />
it because &#8230; &#8220;. Usually because it breaches some law or procedural guideline.</p>
<p>You can tell the really dodgy parts of Kenny&#8217;s story because they<br />
are in quotes.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: perps</title>
		<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/01/01/spot-the-recycled-denial-vi-chris-kenny/#comment-4401</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[perps]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 05:58:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bravenewclimate.com/?p=823#comment-4401</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/01/02/2457903.htm
Coral growth declining.
and
http://www.theage.com.au/national/melbournes-rising-mercury-20090101-78k0.html
and
http://www.theage.com.au/national/the-lady-of-the-lake-20090101-78k7.html
At least some respected media are willing to report the science. You still get some pseude-skeptics commenting on the story but most are being given short shrift by the commentators.
I will post these on Bolt&#039;s blog - just to stir them up - but of course  they won&#039;t be convinced. A similar article I posted drew only one response though -&quot;we don&#039;t believe anything the ABC reports&quot;!!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/01/02/2457903.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/01/02/2457903.htm</a><br />
Coral growth declining.<br />
and<br />
<a href="http://www.theage.com.au/national/melbournes-rising-mercury-20090101-78k0.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.theage.com.au/national/melbournes-rising-mercury-20090101-78k0.html</a><br />
and<br />
<a href="http://www.theage.com.au/national/the-lady-of-the-lake-20090101-78k7.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.theage.com.au/national/the-lady-of-the-lake-20090101-78k7.html</a><br />
At least some respected media are willing to report the science. You still get some pseude-skeptics commenting on the story but most are being given short shrift by the commentators.<br />
I will post these on Bolt&#8217;s blog &#8211; just to stir them up &#8211; but of course  they won&#8217;t be convinced. A similar article I posted drew only one response though -&#8221;we don&#8217;t believe anything the ABC reports&#8221;!!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: John Mashey</title>
		<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/01/01/spot-the-recycled-denial-vi-chris-kenny/#comment-4399</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Mashey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 05:15:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bravenewclimate.com/?p=823#comment-4399</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ken:

a) We need our scientists to do science, and if they sometimes choose to take up the cudgels, I&#039;m glad ... but

b) The rest of us need to help out as we can, because there&#039;s just too much  of this stuff.  I&#039;d guess that if Barry tried to chase down every one, he&#039;d get ~zero research done.

c) In any case, when you write in response to an article, you are being *reactive*.  I&#039;d claim that it is better to take a longer-term view and be *proactive*, as in &lt;a href=&quot;http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2007/10/john_mashey_what_to_do_about_p.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;What to do about poor science reporting&lt;/a&gt;.

Most of the dumb junk doesn&#039;t need a climate researcher.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken:</p>
<p>a) We need our scientists to do science, and if they sometimes choose to take up the cudgels, I&#8217;m glad &#8230; but</p>
<p>b) The rest of us need to help out as we can, because there&#8217;s just too much  of this stuff.  I&#8217;d guess that if Barry tried to chase down every one, he&#8217;d get ~zero research done.</p>
<p>c) In any case, when you write in response to an article, you are being *reactive*.  I&#8217;d claim that it is better to take a longer-term view and be *proactive*, as in <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2007/10/john_mashey_what_to_do_about_p.php" rel="nofollow">What to do about poor science reporting</a>.</p>
<p>Most of the dumb junk doesn&#8217;t need a climate researcher.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ken Fabos</title>
		<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/01/01/spot-the-recycled-denial-vi-chris-kenny/#comment-4390</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ken Fabos]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 01:27:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bravenewclimate.com/?p=823#comment-4390</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I urge working scientists to write with objections and corrections to every mainstream media article that presents misinformation on climate science. Fill their mail bags with them! I realise this may not be part of the job description but given the world changing seriousness of this issue, attempts to mislead the public need to bring a strong and consistent response from credible professionals, preferably with the letterheads of relevant faculties and institutions so that it&#039;s clear that such objections are much more than an individual expressing an unfounded opinion. 

There&#039;s expert testimony and there are people shouting from the back after the verdict is handed down. The public at large needs to be made more aware of the difference and the mainstream media are the conduit most people get their information from.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I urge working scientists to write with objections and corrections to every mainstream media article that presents misinformation on climate science. Fill their mail bags with them! I realise this may not be part of the job description but given the world changing seriousness of this issue, attempts to mislead the public need to bring a strong and consistent response from credible professionals, preferably with the letterheads of relevant faculties and institutions so that it&#8217;s clear that such objections are much more than an individual expressing an unfounded opinion. </p>
<p>There&#8217;s expert testimony and there are people shouting from the back after the verdict is handed down. The public at large needs to be made more aware of the difference and the mainstream media are the conduit most people get their information from.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Steven Earl Salmony</title>
		<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/01/01/spot-the-recycled-denial-vi-chris-kenny/#comment-4386</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steven Earl Salmony]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2009 23:10:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bravenewclimate.com/?p=823#comment-4386</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear Barry,

Your posting above is clear. My comments are not intended to arouse anyone’s ire. Sorry that has happened.  I will reform my posts in accord with your recommendations.

Thanks for all you are doing to protect biodiversity from massive extirpation, the environment from irreversible degradation, the Earth from wanton dissipation of its resources and the family of humanity from reckless endangerment by the unbridled overconsumption, overproduction and overpopulation activities of the human species in these early years of Century XXI.

Sincerely,

Steve]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Barry,</p>
<p>Your posting above is clear. My comments are not intended to arouse anyone’s ire. Sorry that has happened.  I will reform my posts in accord with your recommendations.</p>
<p>Thanks for all you are doing to protect biodiversity from massive extirpation, the environment from irreversible degradation, the Earth from wanton dissipation of its resources and the family of humanity from reckless endangerment by the unbridled overconsumption, overproduction and overpopulation activities of the human species in these early years of Century XXI.</p>
<p>Sincerely,</p>
<p>Steve</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: John Mashey</title>
		<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/01/01/spot-the-recycled-denial-vi-chris-kenny/#comment-4383</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Mashey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2009 21:45:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bravenewclimate.com/?p=823#comment-4383</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[re: #2
Thank you, Barry, thank you.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re: #2<br />
Thank you, Barry, thank you.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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