<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" xmlns:geo="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/wgs84_pos#" xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: TCASE 2: Energy primer</title>
	<atom:link href="http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/09/29/tcase2/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/09/29/tcase2/</link>
	<description>Getting to grips with the brave new world of future climate and energy - notes from a Promethean environmentalist</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 19:40:35 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.com/</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/09/29/tcase2/#comment-128937</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Laura]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 May 2011 22:50:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bravenewclimate.com/?p=1770#comment-128937</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The efficiency of solar panels or wind energy does matter, because land use is a major downside of renewables with low energy density.  David MacKay estimates in _Sustainable Energy without the Hot Air_ that supplying the United States&#039; energy needs with solar power would require a solar farm roughly the area of Arizona!  see http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/withouthotair/c30/page_236.shtml
So if solar panels became available that can use the energy from more wavelengths of light, like this:
http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-05-solar-product-captures-percent-energy.html  
it makes solar power look better.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The efficiency of solar panels or wind energy does matter, because land use is a major downside of renewables with low energy density.  David MacKay estimates in _Sustainable Energy without the Hot Air_ that supplying the United States&#8217; energy needs with solar power would require a solar farm roughly the area of Arizona!  see <a href="http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/withouthotair/c30/page_236.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/withouthotair/c30/page_236.shtml</a><br />
So if solar panels became available that can use the energy from more wavelengths of light, like this:<br />
<a href="http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-05-solar-product-captures-percent-energy.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-05-solar-product-captures-percent-energy.html</a><br />
it makes solar power look better.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: What price of Indian independence? Greenpeace under the spotlight &#171; BraveNewClimate</title>
		<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/09/29/tcase2/#comment-128199</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[What price of Indian independence? Greenpeace under the spotlight &#171; BraveNewClimate]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 May 2011 23:29:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bravenewclimate.com/?p=1770#comment-128199</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Note 3: Giga watts, for non technical readers.: The word billion means different things in different countries, but &#8220;giga&#8221; always means a thousand million, so a giga watt (GW for short) is a useful unit for large amounts of power. A 100-watt globe takes 100 watts of power to run. Run it for an hour and you have used 100 watt-hours of energy. Similarly, a GWh, is a giga watt of power used for an hour, and this is a useful unit for large amounts of energy. If you want to know all about energy units for a better understanding of BNC discussions, here&#8217;s Barry&#8217;s primer [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Note 3: Giga watts, for non technical readers.: The word billion means different things in different countries, but &#8220;giga&#8221; always means a thousand million, so a giga watt (GW for short) is a useful unit for large amounts of power. A 100-watt globe takes 100 watts of power to run. Run it for an hour and you have used 100 watt-hours of energy. Similarly, a GWh, is a giga watt of power used for an hour, and this is a useful unit for large amounts of energy. If you want to know all about energy units for a better understanding of BNC discussions, here&#8217;s Barry&#8217;s primer [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TCASE 10: Not all capacity factors are made equal (Part 1) &#171; BraveNewClimate</title>
		<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/09/29/tcase2/#comment-67872</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TCASE 10: Not all capacity factors are made equal (Part 1) &#171; BraveNewClimate]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 May 2010 06:27:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bravenewclimate.com/?p=1770#comment-67872</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] what it could have produced if it had been running at full power for the whole period. (Please read TCASE 2, Energy Primer, for a fuller explanation). The CF for coal-fired and nuclear power stations averages 85-90%, wind [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] what it could have produced if it had been running at full power for the whole period. (Please read TCASE 2, Energy Primer, for a fuller explanation). The CF for coal-fired and nuclear power stations averages 85-90%, wind [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Would 10,000 nuclear power stations cook the planet? &#171; BraveNewClimate</title>
		<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/09/29/tcase2/#comment-47925</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Would 10,000 nuclear power stations cook the planet? &#171; BraveNewClimate]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 14:10:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bravenewclimate.com/?p=1770#comment-47925</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] (thermal) annual energy use by humans in 2005 was ~500 exajoules (EJ; see here for explanation of this and other energy terms), compared to 3.85 million EJ received from the sun. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] (thermal) annual energy use by humans in 2005 was ~500 exajoules (EJ; see here for explanation of this and other energy terms), compared to 3.85 million EJ received from the sun. [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TCASE 6 &#8211; Cooling water and thermal power plants &#171; BraveNewClimate</title>
		<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/09/29/tcase2/#comment-35859</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TCASE 6 &#8211; Cooling water and thermal power plants &#171; BraveNewClimate]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 14:03:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bravenewclimate.com/?p=1770#comment-35859</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] power&#160;plants  Posted on 20 November 2009 by Barry Brook   Heat engines require cooling, to turn heat energy into mechanical energy (and then, via a turbine-connected generator, to electric.... This is an unavoidable physical principle, and is typically exploited via the Carnot [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] power&nbsp;plants  Posted on 20 November 2009 by Barry Brook   Heat engines require cooling, to turn heat energy into mechanical energy (and then, via a turbine-connected generator, to electric&#8230;. This is an unavoidable physical principle, and is typically exploited via the Carnot [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TCASE 3: The energy demand equation to 2050 &#171; BraveNewClimate.com</title>
		<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/09/29/tcase2/#comment-30323</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TCASE 3: The energy demand equation to 2050 &#171; BraveNewClimate.com]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 06:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bravenewclimate.com/?p=1770#comment-30323</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] TCASE 2: Energy&#160;primer [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] TCASE 2: Energy&nbsp;primer [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: G.R.L. Cowan, H2 energy fan 'til ~1996</title>
		<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/09/29/tcase2/#comment-29454</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[G.R.L. Cowan, H2 energy fan 'til ~1996]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 13:50:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bravenewclimate.com/?p=1770#comment-29454</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;... molten salt/graphite block ... heat stores are able to hold a decent amount of heat energy for many days (perhaps weeks) ...&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Depending on their volume-to-surface ratio.

But hot graphite tends to burn. Don&#039;t assume an energy proposal makes any sense at all just because it gets attention from civil servants. As the major class of oil and gas &lt;em&gt;rentier&lt;/em&gt;, in the race to outmode oil and gas, they have an interest in picking losers, and they&#039;re not always subtle about it.

I suspect if the graphite-block story were sensible, it would involve magnesium oxide blocks. These, or rather, blocks whose composition is &lt;em&gt;mostly&lt;/em&gt; MgO, have long seen high-temperature service under the name &lt;em&gt;firebrick&lt;/em&gt;. Somehow, graphite firebrick, despite being even more refractory than MgO, has not made inroads.



(&lt;em&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.eagle.ca/~gcowan/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;How fire can be domesticated&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>&#8230; molten salt/graphite block &#8230; heat stores are able to hold a decent amount of heat energy for many days (perhaps weeks) &#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p>Depending on their volume-to-surface ratio.</p>
<p>But hot graphite tends to burn. Don&#8217;t assume an energy proposal makes any sense at all just because it gets attention from civil servants. As the major class of oil and gas <em>rentier</em>, in the race to outmode oil and gas, they have an interest in picking losers, and they&#8217;re not always subtle about it.</p>
<p>I suspect if the graphite-block story were sensible, it would involve magnesium oxide blocks. These, or rather, blocks whose composition is <em>mostly</em> MgO, have long seen high-temperature service under the name <em>firebrick</em>. Somehow, graphite firebrick, despite being even more refractory than MgO, has not made inroads.</p>
<p>(<em><a href="http://www.eagle.ca/~gcowan/" rel="nofollow">How fire can be domesticated</a></em>)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DV82XL</title>
		<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/09/29/tcase2/#comment-29390</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DV82XL]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 22:58:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bravenewclimate.com/?p=1770#comment-29390</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There are massive losses in Compressed Air Energy Storage (CAES) from heat lost during compression that has to be returned by some estimates the equivalent of 1 Watt must be added for every 3 Watts generated by a CAES system.

While you are correct in saying that a molten salt heat reservoir can hold heat for a considerable length of time, this is not the case if heat is being drawn off to generate power,]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are massive losses in Compressed Air Energy Storage (CAES) from heat lost during compression that has to be returned by some estimates the equivalent of 1 Watt must be added for every 3 Watts generated by a CAES system.</p>
<p>While you are correct in saying that a molten salt heat reservoir can hold heat for a considerable length of time, this is not the case if heat is being drawn off to generate power,</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David B. Benson</title>
		<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/09/29/tcase2/#comment-29389</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David B. Benson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 22:41:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bravenewclimate.com/?p=1770#comment-29389</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Barry Brook (38) --- Those are impressive claims!

And thanks for the reminder about compressed gases.  In princial one could recapture some of the energy which went into making CNG, for example.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barry Brook (38) &#8212; Those are impressive claims!</p>
<p>And thanks for the reminder about compressed gases.  In princial one could recapture some of the energy which went into making CNG, for example.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Barry Brook</title>
		<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/09/29/tcase2/#comment-29318</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Barry Brook]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 05:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bravenewclimate.com/?p=1770#comment-29318</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[David #37, you&#039;re right, although technically, if your thermal conductivity/emissivity is low enough, you can retain heat for much longer than a few hours. Indeed, I&#039;ve seen claims from the molten salt/graphite block engineers that these heat stores are able to hold a decent amount of heat energy for many days (perhaps weeks). But if you want to store energy for many weeks or months, then you have little recourse but to go for chemical storage or other mechanical forms (such as compressed air) with very low ambient losses.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David #37, you&#8217;re right, although technically, if your thermal conductivity/emissivity is low enough, you can retain heat for much longer than a few hours. Indeed, I&#8217;ve seen claims from the molten salt/graphite block engineers that these heat stores are able to hold a decent amount of heat energy for many days (perhaps weeks). But if you want to store energy for many weeks or months, then you have little recourse but to go for chemical storage or other mechanical forms (such as compressed air) with very low ambient losses.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David B. Benson</title>
		<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/09/29/tcase2/#comment-29284</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David B. Benson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 23:05:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bravenewclimate.com/?p=1770#comment-29284</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Barry Brook --- Quite a good primer!

You may wish to consider adding that thermal energy can only be stored for a few hours.  For long term storage one can use the potential energy obtained bby pumped storage or via hydrocarbons such as biomethane or fossil fuels.  Note that for very long term storage, refined fuels won&#039;t do; those degenerate with age.  Methane, butane and propane will not, I believe.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barry Brook &#8212; Quite a good primer!</p>
<p>You may wish to consider adding that thermal energy can only be stored for a few hours.  For long term storage one can use the potential energy obtained bby pumped storage or via hydrocarbons such as biomethane or fossil fuels.  Note that for very long term storage, refined fuels won&#8217;t do; those degenerate with age.  Methane, butane and propane will not, I believe.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gordon</title>
		<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/09/29/tcase2/#comment-29136</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gordon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 06:59:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bravenewclimate.com/?p=1770#comment-29136</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[When factoring the true cost of a solar system you need to consider the cost of replacing the Inverter within the contract period and also hope you don&#039;t suffer a lightning strike.  After all you are contracted to the government and any failures of equipment are at your (full) cost.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When factoring the true cost of a solar system you need to consider the cost of replacing the Inverter within the contract period and also hope you don&#8217;t suffer a lightning strike.  After all you are contracted to the government and any failures of equipment are at your (full) cost.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Matt Andrews</title>
		<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/09/29/tcase2/#comment-29062</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matt Andrews]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 14:02:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bravenewclimate.com/?p=1770#comment-29062</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh yes, I should have clarified that: the PV installations I referred to (and surmised on the psychology behind) were rural installations with storage.  I can see the confusion since that followed a comment on urban PV uptake with feed-in: sorry about that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh yes, I should have clarified that: the PV installations I referred to (and surmised on the psychology behind) were rural installations with storage.  I can see the confusion since that followed a comment on urban PV uptake with feed-in: sorry about that.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Newlands</title>
		<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/09/29/tcase2/#comment-29061</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Newlands]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:54:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bravenewclimate.com/?p=1770#comment-29061</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Matt I think you&#039;d need a battery backup to act as a UPS in a crisis. When those BP inverter boxes can&#039;t detect grid AC they switch off the panels so you get nothing. This could be critical in a bushfire when you want to run say a 400w electric hose pump and the mains are down. That&#039;s why I bought a small petrol driven water pump as back up. 

You&#039;ve touched on my only real fear about a nuclear Australia; what if it became a semi retirement job for failed politicians or it was run by Enron type creeps?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt I think you&#8217;d need a battery backup to act as a UPS in a crisis. When those BP inverter boxes can&#8217;t detect grid AC they switch off the panels so you get nothing. This could be critical in a bushfire when you want to run say a 400w electric hose pump and the mains are down. That&#8217;s why I bought a small petrol driven water pump as back up. </p>
<p>You&#8217;ve touched on my only real fear about a nuclear Australia; what if it became a semi retirement job for failed politicians or it was run by Enron type creeps?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Peter Lang</title>
		<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/09/29/tcase2/#comment-29060</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter Lang]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:50:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bravenewclimate.com/?p=1770#comment-29060</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Matt #30,

The grid connected systems being installed in the ACT do not act as UPS nor as a source of power if the grid goes down.  They feed into the grid and have no storage.  Off-grid systems with storage are far more costly.  I suspect all those reasons you gave are invalid, although I do accept people are buying such systems thinking they can do all those things.  The population is being grossly misled in many ways about renewable energy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt #30,</p>
<p>The grid connected systems being installed in the ACT do not act as UPS nor as a source of power if the grid goes down.  They feed into the grid and have no storage.  Off-grid systems with storage are far more costly.  I suspect all those reasons you gave are invalid, although I do accept people are buying such systems thinking they can do all those things.  The population is being grossly misled in many ways about renewable energy.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tim Kelly</title>
		<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/09/29/tcase2/#comment-29059</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tim Kelly]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:50:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bravenewclimate.com/?p=1770#comment-29059</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To Peter Lang Re:
&quot;The CO2 avoidance cost is $4,051/tonne CO2-eq avoided. For comparison, C trading schemes are putting C costs at $10-$40 per tonne. the avoidance cost is paid by all Australians&quot;.

I cannot agree with your assessment on the avoidance cost.  With the Federal Government now allowing the legal householder count and 5 MWh of RECs to sell into the mandatory market we have a six fold count this year.  The net result is that we now have 4MWh less renewables for every deemed MWh created so this is actually a harm cost with the false solar credits concept.  Australian electricity users are now subsidising voluntary solar panels to reduce Australias total renewable electricity, rather than just paying to achieve nothing at all, as the scheme did before July.

I am however puzzled as to why you would just drop in carbon trading scheme cost ranges.  These costs are notional permit sale or secondary market costs that need to be considered in the broader context of the permits that are given out for free and the compensation that will be granted.  They are numbers manipulated by governments based on what is perceived that the economy might be able to afford in the short term but they do not reflect the cost of mitigation and not at the scale that we will need to avoid disaster.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Peter Lang Re:<br />
&#8220;The CO2 avoidance cost is $4,051/tonne CO2-eq avoided. For comparison, C trading schemes are putting C costs at $10-$40 per tonne. the avoidance cost is paid by all Australians&#8221;.</p>
<p>I cannot agree with your assessment on the avoidance cost.  With the Federal Government now allowing the legal householder count and 5 MWh of RECs to sell into the mandatory market we have a six fold count this year.  The net result is that we now have 4MWh less renewables for every deemed MWh created so this is actually a harm cost with the false solar credits concept.  Australian electricity users are now subsidising voluntary solar panels to reduce Australias total renewable electricity, rather than just paying to achieve nothing at all, as the scheme did before July.</p>
<p>I am however puzzled as to why you would just drop in carbon trading scheme cost ranges.  These costs are notional permit sale or secondary market costs that need to be considered in the broader context of the permits that are given out for free and the compensation that will be granted.  They are numbers manipulated by governments based on what is perceived that the economy might be able to afford in the short term but they do not reflect the cost of mitigation and not at the scale that we will need to avoid disaster.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tim Kelly</title>
		<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/09/29/tcase2/#comment-29057</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tim Kelly]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:29:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bravenewclimate.com/?p=1770#comment-29057</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Barry
In Logic, How can a sale be part of a subsidy?  A sale is a sale and a subsidy is a subsidy.

I am sure that you are aware that what you did was sell your deemed proof of generation certificates being the RECs that were probably used by liable wholesalers and retailers to meet their mandatory obligations under the Renewable Energy (Electricity) Act, or perhaps if they were sold before July this year they were turned into GreenPower and sold to a neighbour.

I think that what you are describing is that your sale was treated as if it was a subsidy which is the widespread promotion that leads people to such a decision, if they even understand enough for there to be a decision.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barry<br />
In Logic, How can a sale be part of a subsidy?  A sale is a sale and a subsidy is a subsidy.</p>
<p>I am sure that you are aware that what you did was sell your deemed proof of generation certificates being the RECs that were probably used by liable wholesalers and retailers to meet their mandatory obligations under the Renewable Energy (Electricity) Act, or perhaps if they were sold before July this year they were turned into GreenPower and sold to a neighbour.</p>
<p>I think that what you are describing is that your sale was treated as if it was a subsidy which is the widespread promotion that leads people to such a decision, if they even understand enough for there to be a decision.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Matt Andrews</title>
		<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/09/29/tcase2/#comment-29056</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matt Andrews]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:25:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bravenewclimate.com/?p=1770#comment-29056</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here in the ACT, PV uptake appears to have been going on apace since the feed-in tariff was introduced.  And yes, I completely agree that it makes little sense in terms of cost per tonne of emissions reduction.  

However, there&#039;s another significant psychological factor, which has been a part of the thinking of those that I know of that have installed PV recently: the idea of self-sufficiency.  Partly, perhaps, long-standing resentment against the utilities; partly as a partial UPS during (incredibly rare) blackouts, and partly, I suspect, as a kind of minor doomsday insurance - something that could be valuable if it all goes pear-shaped (pandemic, food crisis, ...) and social services and utility networks start to fall apart.


Also, Barry, a couple of typos:

 - in the third last para: &quot;Solar panels are using described in terms of their peak kW power&quot;: a surplus &quot;using&quot;?

 - near the end of the second last para:  &quot;terrawatt hours&quot;: should be &quot;terawatt&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here in the ACT, PV uptake appears to have been going on apace since the feed-in tariff was introduced.  And yes, I completely agree that it makes little sense in terms of cost per tonne of emissions reduction.  </p>
<p>However, there&#8217;s another significant psychological factor, which has been a part of the thinking of those that I know of that have installed PV recently: the idea of self-sufficiency.  Partly, perhaps, long-standing resentment against the utilities; partly as a partial UPS during (incredibly rare) blackouts, and partly, I suspect, as a kind of minor doomsday insurance &#8211; something that could be valuable if it all goes pear-shaped (pandemic, food crisis, &#8230;) and social services and utility networks start to fall apart.</p>
<p>Also, Barry, a couple of typos:</p>
<p> &#8211; in the third last para: &#8220;Solar panels are using described in terms of their peak kW power&#8221;: a surplus &#8220;using&#8221;?</p>
<p> &#8211; near the end of the second last para:  &#8220;terrawatt hours&#8221;: should be &#8220;terawatt&#8221;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Newlands</title>
		<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/09/29/tcase2/#comment-29055</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Newlands]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:02:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bravenewclimate.com/?p=1770#comment-29055</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Living here in SW Tas there is no feed-in tariff, just 16.5c a kwh credit.  After the wettest year since 1927 or so my electricity account is somehow still $163 in surplus. All the indications are for non-stop rain ahead so I don&#039;t know when I&#039;ll get a few spare kwhs up. Note this is only possible if most of the grid can accommodate minor intermittent input.

I disagree with feed-in tariffs at either residential or commercial level. The rationale given by Jerome a Paris et al is that increased scale drives down average fixed costs, an argument that applies to anything. After a FiT phaseout period commercial generators of wind and solar should bid for electricity supply in 10 minute blocks at a price that covers their expected average costs. That is, higher than gas or uncarbon taxed coal and with no obligation on electricity retailers to obtain renewable credits. 

An interesting perspective on Tasmanian energy is the implied subsidy from the 2c per kwh price to the State&#039;s three electrorefiners, 
http://www.themercury.com.au/article/2009/09/19/98431_opinion.html
It works out about $166,000 per employee. No doubt a touted silicon refinery will get the same deal. This could be why the island imports ever increasing amounts of coal power from the mainland; it&#039;s buying jobs.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Living here in SW Tas there is no feed-in tariff, just 16.5c a kwh credit.  After the wettest year since 1927 or so my electricity account is somehow still $163 in surplus. All the indications are for non-stop rain ahead so I don&#8217;t know when I&#8217;ll get a few spare kwhs up. Note this is only possible if most of the grid can accommodate minor intermittent input.</p>
<p>I disagree with feed-in tariffs at either residential or commercial level. The rationale given by Jerome a Paris et al is that increased scale drives down average fixed costs, an argument that applies to anything. After a FiT phaseout period commercial generators of wind and solar should bid for electricity supply in 10 minute blocks at a price that covers their expected average costs. That is, higher than gas or uncarbon taxed coal and with no obligation on electricity retailers to obtain renewable credits. </p>
<p>An interesting perspective on Tasmanian energy is the implied subsidy from the 2c per kwh price to the State&#8217;s three electrorefiners,<br />
<a href="http://www.themercury.com.au/article/2009/09/19/98431_opinion.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.themercury.com.au/article/2009/09/19/98431_opinion.html</a><br />
It works out about $166,000 per employee. No doubt a touted silicon refinery will get the same deal. This could be why the island imports ever increasing amounts of coal power from the mainland; it&#8217;s buying jobs.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TerjeP (say tay-a)</title>
		<link>http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/09/29/tcase2/#comment-29040</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TerjeP (say tay-a)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 09:33:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bravenewclimate.com/?p=1770#comment-29040</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Matt - forceably taking $7500 from one group of people and giving it to another group of people and then declaring that everybody wins is not at all convincing. About 15 cents in every tax dollar disappears in government adminstrative overheads and there is probably an additional 40 cents lost to general welfare through dead weight losses. Advocates of transfers ignore these costs all too frequently. Not to mention the basic loss of liberty and autonomy. 

Barry - the flip side of the improved marginal return by including your assumed marginal tax rate is that if you were selling the power to your neighbour rather than discounting the cost off your bill then you would be subject to quite different tax treatment. Taxes such as income tax operate as a trade tariff applicable to inter household trade. They are more destructive that tariffs on inter nation trade (because the rate is typically higher and most trade isn&#039;t international anyway). In short if you were a net producer of power the marginal return from extra panels would be different. There is an extra hidden subsidy occuring here.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt &#8211; forceably taking $7500 from one group of people and giving it to another group of people and then declaring that everybody wins is not at all convincing. About 15 cents in every tax dollar disappears in government adminstrative overheads and there is probably an additional 40 cents lost to general welfare through dead weight losses. Advocates of transfers ignore these costs all too frequently. Not to mention the basic loss of liberty and autonomy. </p>
<p>Barry &#8211; the flip side of the improved marginal return by including your assumed marginal tax rate is that if you were selling the power to your neighbour rather than discounting the cost off your bill then you would be subject to quite different tax treatment. Taxes such as income tax operate as a trade tariff applicable to inter household trade. They are more destructive that tariffs on inter nation trade (because the rate is typically higher and most trade isn&#8217;t international anyway). In short if you were a net producer of power the marginal return from extra panels would be different. There is an extra hidden subsidy occuring here.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

